Anyone seen it on BBC? Basically says Super League/ Rugby League isn't as good as it was 5-10 years a go.

Is he right? Coincidence that his team were top of their game 5-10 years a go, now they're not, its not as good anymore?

I think overall the standard has dropped but I think the top is still as good as its ever been.

The quality of the league games has dropped. Competition points not being as valuable as they once were for the better clubs has lowered the intensity of weekly round fixtures.

I disagree. There are more teams at the top competing for the trophies (which is actually the real reason a team can win from 5th - because there are more teams capable of winning). There are more competitive teams in the middle of the table. And the teams at the bottom are slightly better than they were too, think back to the likes of the hopeless Halifax and Leigh teams.

For example, compare 2012 to 2005.
2005 Leigh finished bottom with 2 wins and an average score of 16-43 compared to
2012 Widnes with 6 wins and av of 20-40.

2005 3 teams score more than 1000 points with Leeds averaging 41 compared to
2012 2 teams scoring 900+ with Wigan averaging 36.

In 2005, only the top 3 teams we really any good (until Andrew Johns gave us some late hope) compared to
2012 a pretty strong top 6 plus Huddersfield in 7th strong earlier in the season.

I would like to see better rewards for league position, but I disagree the product is poorer or that the team are weaker or that games don't mean anything.

I see what you're saying but do you not think coaches/ players think a loss in the regular season is less damaging now than what it was before the 8 tier play off was brought in. Are you still in close contact with Briers? Would be interesting to hear his/ the players point of view on it.

FWIW, I think Leeds are and would be better than 5th if the old PO system was still in place. Meaning that altho it looks like a team from 5th is good enough to win in the current system but it was un heard of to win it like that from the old PO format.

I think it was Jones-Bucanan who admitted they go through the motions most of the year and only 'get going once they can smell autumn'.

I agree with most of your post apart from this last statement, well the last bit of it anyway.

Surely the lack of value/reward for league position means that (some) games don't mean anything (as much as they should).

I'm thoroughly enjoying my RL, but, don't know how much of that is down to us having halcyon days comparatively speaking,(probably a high proportion) so it is tempered with some concern.

My concerns for the game are hugely tempered by our recent success. But the top 8 play-off needs serious review. For me, only top 5 strikes the right balance between reward for league position and excitement of play-offs (and generally I'm in favour of the GF deciding the champ).

Kick 2 teams out, which will improve quality at the bottom end, and make top 5 more palatable, but keep licensing (whilst licensing hasn't prevented Bradford/Salford issues, relegation threat wouldn't have helped any, and I could argue makes them more likely). Play all team home and away, with Magic weekend-23 games, allows for a later season start, single game over Easter weekend, but Origin series played mid-week. One-off test V France around St George's day (same time as ANZAC test therefore).

Increase the cap, so Union is less of a threat and Aussies might come over. Most radically, I'd look at some sort of draft system to better spread talent around the game-not sure how this might work, but longer term I think something like this is needed. And also look at strategic expansion of the game (look at what the NFL are doing with London-long term planning and patience are required, and on-the-road games a must.

That should sort it all out

Start with Shaun Wane's Wigan side that topped the table last year - as good as any side ever.

Whether he believes it or not we do not need our players of this game showing this sort of view about a game that needs as much positive propaganda as possible. Poor show from a guy I usually like.

Saints aren't cleaning up anymore...Thats why he's moaning...

I don't see what he has said thats so controversial.

His critical points are:

1. The speed around the ruck is slower (this is down to the refereeing)

2. 10 years ago teams were playing in different styles but now a lot of teams play the same way

3. We have had some good stand out moments but overall the last few years haven't been fantastic and we need to get back to remembering its an entertainment industry

4. "A lot of people are reluctant to release the game to the next level" - I took this to mean he thinks the administrators are not being brave enough


I reckon as Warrington fans our views are probably coloured by the fact that the last few years we have seen far better rugby from a Warrington side than we have for decades. But looking wider than Warrington, I think what Wilkin says is right. I don't think the game is as exciting overall as it used to be. I don't think there are as many players around that excite fans, than used to be.

I expect most of our fans actually agree with a lot of this but won't say it because they don't want to agree with Jon Wilkin.

Perhaps after a 50 point flogging in the World Cup semi final later this year we will start to discuss the problems in the game again.

Pretty much just negative rhetoric though, "a lot of people.." blah blah blah, he might as well have been introducing the stig on top gear. He could have easily talked the game up and said how great it was to see Leeds get to a Challenge Cup and Grand Final, along with Warrington, and win one once again. "A lot of people.." think that the league should have less teams, along as its not their club that gets cut of course.

If Saints were winning things he wouldn't be moaning i honestly think its that simple...